S01E18: Nurturing Transformative Change

A photo of a butterfly in a human hand. The cover image of Episode 18: Nurturing Transformative Change

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E.O.Wilson: “The human juggernaut is permanently eroding Earth’s ancient biosphere by a combination of forces that can be summarized by the acronym “HIPPO,” the animal hippo. H is for habitat destruction, including climate change forced by greenhouse gases. I is for the invasive species like the fire ants, the zebra mussels, broom grasses and pathogenic bacteria and viruses that are flooding every country, and at an exponential rate — that’s the I. The P, the first one in “HIPPO,” is for pollution. The second is for continued population, human population expansion. And the final letter is O, for over-harvesting – driving species into extinction by excessive hunting and fishing. The HIPPO juggernaut we have created, if unabated, is destined – according to the best estimates of ongoing biodiversity research – to reduce half of Earth’s still surviving animal and plant species to extinction or critical endangerment by the end of the century.”

Arpita: This is the biologist, naturalist, and writer aka the father of biodiversity E.O.Wilson explaining how our collective human footprint is not only adversely affecting millions of species but also our own survival and holistic well-being.

And we used this quote from his famous TED talk in our episode called ‘Keeping Quiet’ to speak to the urgency of our current situation – and I felt like it would be a great quote to begin this conversation on ‘transformative change and action’ because it immediately puts into perspective why we are here discussing the need for transformative thinking.

Deepika: I agree it puts down the urgency or the need for change very clearly. And I really like how it’s an acronym – HIPPO – so that makes it easy to remember!

Yet I was thinking that it might be a good idea to review a bit of the history of this idea of ‘transformative change and action’ especially as we’ve been using that terminology a bit through this season and more importantly because it’s what is needed in this moment.

Arpita: So as I remember from my readings, the idea of transformative change began to evolve somewhere in the 1970s when the research on planetary well-being began to come out and it was becoming obvious that the aggregate effects of human activities were hitting “planetary boundaries.”

You had ideas like the “carrying capacity” emerge, which suggested that there are limits to the earth’s capacity to – one, provide ecological resources that human societies need and two, to absorb the waste they generate through the use of these resources. Both “planetary boundaries” and “carrying capacity” basically bring to fore the issue of scale. In other words, the aggregate scale of human activities at the global level cannot exceed certain limits.

Deepika: This is the idea around which the Earth Overshoot Day functions right? Basically the idea being that Earth Overshoot Day marks the date when humanity has exhausted nature’s budget for the year.

Arpita: Yeah, you’re right the Overshoot Day gives us a sense of how we are violating the Earth’s carrying capacity.

Deepika: So for 2020 for example it fell on August 22 which means that beyond this date, we are dipping over into the resources that belong to the future. As they say on their website: In less than nine months, humanity has exhausted Earth’s budget for the year.

Because some of the scientific phenomena can be difficult to navigate, I feel like it’s a nice way to understand what’s going on.

Arpita: I agree, tools such as these make it easier for a lot of us to understand the unsustainable nature of consumption that’s leading to the multiple issues listed out as HIPPO.

So yeah, emergent research since the 70s is showing us something that Naomi Klein in her book ‘This Changes Everything’ pointed out rather straightforwardly, she said: “our economic system and our planetary system are now at war. Or, more accurately, our economy is at war with many forms of life on earth, including human life. What the climate needs to avoid collapse is a contraction in humanity’s use of resources; what our economic model demands to avoid collapse is unfettered expansion. Only one of these sets of rules can be changed, and it’s not the laws of nature.”

Deepika: Hence the case for massive change in how we live and conduct our individual and collective lives.

Arpita: Exactly. And like we said in our previous episode where we were discussing well-being, there are two aspects to the kind of change that has to be contemplated: the first as Klein says is simply that the nature of our current economies which are based on high consumption and constant growth are incompatible with the idea of planetary boundaries; and secondly, the measures of economic growth in themselves say little about the actual health and well-being of the people, communities and eco-systems – so there’s need to evolve thinking and doing which also brings in social and environmental elements of well-being into the conversation to understand development.

Deepika: So the nature of change required at this moment to stave the flow of the multiple crises of our times is almost like a paradigm shift from how we’ve been living so far. Actually it reminds me of a note from the Intergovernmental Science Policy Platform on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services (IPBES) site which speaks to transformative change and simply says it like this: Transformative change means doing things differently—not just a little more or less of something we’re already doing. (…) truly transformative change is change that becomes sweeping. It often starts small, but it is strategic. It includes individual decisions to help start or build new social norms, and the legal changes that unlock all kinds of other change.

Arpita: Yes, that is the simplest summary of it really! And of course the direction of these changes is towards mitigating and healing the damage that has been done by our existing economic systems even as we as a species evolve a system of living that allows for the thriving of all species and eco-systems.

Deepika: And I remember when we were thinking about this during TCCs more formative period, we were also asking the vital question that goes with this, which is – yes we need transformative change as you said, but also very important to address was – how do i, a single individual, play a part in that? What does transformative change mean for me at the individual or at community level?

Arpita: Of course, because frankly it’s what each of us was also wondering right? I mean there was this big looming reality and the obvious need to tackle it but – if it was so big was it really possible to do anything through one individual’s action?

Deepika: And I think we have to the best possible extent tried to balance this in the conversations of season one, where we not only speak to some of these issues at hand but also tried our best to tease out what it was that each of us could within our own individual capacity to make a difference – how do we understand transformative change and individual action within each of those issues – and frankly, going in even I never imagined that there was so much one could do!

Arpita: I think here we can begin with ourselves – and well some of the results are right there in your own house – you did the interviews for our four part series on waste and consumerism – and at the beginning of that conversation you were wondering why you had stopped composting and by the end of it, not only were you composting but you had made firm friends with our favorite black soldier flies and were inspiring a whole host of your friends to take it up as well!

Deepika: Yes, I never imagined it but maybe I should have coz of all the conversations I was having but really doing something with your own hands – something even as simple as taking five ten minutes to segregate my waste is profound.

Arpita: I think one of the insights for me was definitely this, that the overwhelming feeling of being powerless and helpless can quite surprisingly and immediately change when we take even a minute step towards actually doing something.

Deepika: You’re spot on! Taking small steps towards any form of action – be it picking a book about an issue, making a google alert even to stay informed on these subjects, or in my case begin again with a hands-on approach to my waste – it makes things more immediate I think. You read about a huge city wide waste problem of 1000s of tonnes and it feels too big and overwhelming, makes you want to just look away – but if you look at your waste and begin there, it feels manageable.

Arpita: Yeah in some ways contracting the scale of a problem to your individual and community levels definitely helps one begin to respond and think about things differently. It feels less formidable to segregate your own waste instead of considering how tonnes of waste is to be managed. And I find this lil trick useful that if you must scale – scale the outcome of your action. For example, just a few days back an insta post by Daily Dump shared how if one family of four composts 1 kg of waste per day, it ends up saving 300kgs of carbon emissions annually and similarly 20 families composting 20kgs daily implies 6000 kgs of carbon emission reduction annually! By doing your little bit on a daily basis – an individual’s action begins to aggregate – it does make a difference!

Deepika: I remember this coming up from my first visit to Versova to see the beach clean up being led there by Afroz Shah – even as I cleaned one small section of the beach I could already see more waste coming in with every wave and standing there it felt like such a daunting task to clean Versova. And I was far from being alone in that sensation!

Akhilesh Bhargav: My name is Akhilesh Bhargav. I’ve been part of Afroz’s team for the past 3-3.5 years now.

I once met Afroz, and someone said that he’s trying to handle a very big problem on Versova beach. I’d never been to the beach, at Versova. And I met him in office and I told him ‘Let’s approach the Chief Minister, we need to seek his help.’ So Afroz just said, ‘Akhilesh, why don’t you come on the beach once?’ It was a Friday, I remember, and on Saturday morning I went to the beach. It was raining heaving, you couldn’t see anything and I was just walking on plastic and I couldn’t believe what was happening. And there I see a bunch of 50-60 people working in crazy amount of rain just trying to pick up plastic. That was the day which kind of changed my life.

I said to myself, ‘Oh my god. This cannot be solved in a lifetime.’ If you had seen Versova beach at that point of time, that’s what you would have thought, and here we are.

Deepika: So yeah truth be told – it didn’t take a lifetime to clean the beach, they managed to clear something like 20 million tonnes of waste within a span of a few years and transformed what basically looked like a gigantic garbage dump to an actual beach where turtles could nest! That was the version of the beach that Akhilesh was pointing at as he said – here we are. Now Versova is known world over as the biggest beach clean up effort. It started with just Afroz and his neighbour picking garbage – and now a few years later it’s a whole citizens movement of change and multiple other beaches are also being cleaned up like this with the support of volunteers!

Arpita: Greta Thunberg’s story is also along similar lines isn’t it? In 2018 she was this lone kid on a sidewalk holding up a ‘school strike for climate’ placard in front of the Swedish parliament and now just a few years later she’s the leader of one of the largest global movements that inspires millions to action and spans across so many countries.

Deepika: This is not to say that all actions lead to the kind of results that Afroz or Greta have had – this is simply to say that individual action has the power to ignite change. Afroz is a gandhian and really both their stories remind me of that quote by Gandhi which goes: In a gentle way you can shake the world.

Also, if i may add, for me – one of the most powerful things of being in that space was that the anxiety that had caught hold of me when i first saw the filth on the beach, dissipated with the actual doing of the work. As I worked in my demarcated corner, pulling out bits of plastic from the sand, in the movement of my limbs, in the simple directed repetitive action – my mind found release and comfort. Just being tired at the end of the day yet feeling proud of the little i could do, the quiet solidarity of collective action – overcame that feeling of helplessness that comes sometimes with just reading endless bits of news on how much garbage Mbai produces. Journey’s do begin with a single step – and in that single little step, I feel like something begins to shift – you’re embracing a narrative of hope versus that of powerlessness.

Arpita: I agree, I think when we think of igniting change – it’s not just external, a lot more of the work is internal. A lot of us consider hope as something that comes from the circumstances around us but lately I’ve been thinking about how hope is something we need to actively build within. And maybe when we take action, however small, that moves us closer to the things we care for – its stoking that fire of hope within. I remember being mesmerized by Paulo Freire when I was in college and in his book Pedagogy of Hope – he makes this one statement: “what can we do now in order to be able to do tomorrow what we are unable to do today?” which really seems to capture the essence of how doing something in the now is a step towards enabling a future you hope for.

Deepika: Yes and this was something we heard a lot of from the people we spoke to through the season. For example I am reminded of my chat with Padma Patil who converted her entire apartments of some 1300 apartments to segregation and composting. There was this part in our conversation where she explained why she prioritised giving her time and energy to community composting versus pursuing a lucrative job.

Padma Patil: I would have gone for work and have a corporate life but then I thought how much money would I earn? Say 50 lakhs I make, keep it in a bank for my son to use over a period of his lifetime, but then I thought, what is the use of that bunch of paper, if he doesn’t have a a good earth to grow his veggies on, have a good life, a healthy life. Air is already polluted, so let me do my part. Maybe its worth 50 lakh, more than a crore. Who knows?

Arpita: This sentiment that Padma expresses, of investing in the future and in the generations to come ahead of us by the actions she is undertaking today was powerfully present and repeated itself across our chats i think – this idea of doing right by our children and our children’s children, this idea of inter-generational justice.

Deepika: And not just in the context of the environment and ensuring that there are resources left behind to secure the future generations – but also with regard to the second element that we were speaking about, in terms of how we take this unique opportunity to expand our understanding and action around what is well-being, build a society based on principles of care.

Arpita: That’s right, the conversations related to inclusion within the cities with Radhika Alkazi from Astha and Kavitha Krishnamoorthy from Kilikili – both were filled to the brim with the wisdom of how investing to make a city friendlier to its most vulnerable citizens – children on the margins due to poverty and disability – makes a better city for all.

Deepika: Absolutely, and I’m fully with them on this. Being in Infinity Park in Chennai, I could see and how a disabled friendly children’s park not only catered to disabled children but very organically grew to attract retired older people, whether it was for the pleasure of being around younger energies or to avail of the same support as the disabled was really a profoundly insightful experience. I think we forget sometimes that disability of some shape and form is everyone’s experience as one grows old. In that sense, when we work to make a city friendly and inclusive to the most vulnerable, you’re covering a very large spectrum of need and care.

But you know there was a bit of the conversation with Radhika that we didn’t put into the episode but was part of the conversation we had. I asked her specifically what gave her hope considering these times and it’s challenges. Mind you I asked her this midst the lockdown induced return migration crisis where she was seeing poor and disabled children bear the brunt of the situation – and yet this was her response.

Radhika: You know there’s a lot of hope that I have when I see children, you know flowering. I see children gaining abilities. I see families becoming strong and advocating for themselves. I see mothers, you know reaching, becoming leaders. I feel, and I’ve worked with people who were like children, so now today I see them as young adults and it’s a tremendous feeling of hope that if we, that lots is possible. I see it everyday. So I think that’s what keeps me going.

Arpita: You know this quality that Radhika is expressing there – this ability to keep a gentle eye on the big picture but concentrate one’s energies in that which is near, concrete and doable – that seems to be the shared trait of these incredible people were able to have in season one. I remember asking S.Vishwanath of Biome Trust, who is one of the foremost authorities in the country on rainwater harvesting – some what of a similar question. How does he continue to work when the big picture of water scarcity is looming overhead so forbiddingly dire? He replied smiling that if one looked only at that one might as well take to the bottle!

As his online moniker zenrainman reflects, he is an ardent believer in zen philosophy and you can see that in his approach and conversation: it is very much situated within the practical realm of the immediate and the present – the only place anything can actually be done!

Deepika: Yes you’re right, this living in the smaller circle of immediacy – of who we are and who we can work and build with – was definitely present in multiple conversations around transformative change and action.

But you know now that you’ve mentioned Vishwanath – there was a second element to his advice which i thought was profoundly useful! This bit where he suggested that it’s not only breaking problems down to the individual level that helps but also breaking it down for execution within a household that helps.

Vishwanath:The moment your attitude to the resource changes, then you find solutions, but what we have as Indians, especially is a starting problem. We intellectualise an idea and we’re not able to translate into practical action. Thing is to stick that 200 liters drum. Once you do that you start to figure out how much water you’re getting and how you’re benefiting. Then slowly you can expand to connect all the other remaining pipes. Never think hundred percent think 30%- 40% and how to build on it to reach a 100%. Once you do that, everything will change for the better and that’s rain water harvesting.

Arpita: Oh yeah, this I’ve been quoting to a lot of people around me really! Cause I think often we knot ourselves into inaction when we try to do everything in one go – trying to make a huge change all at once can be hard to undertake. For example I remember trying to go straight into the whole ‘my plastic use will not exceed the limits of this tiny glass bottle this year’ kind of challenge many years ago – and I failed so miserably that I almost gave up even trying! Coz it was really difficult to avoid all plastic – it shows up in all kinds of places that you hadn’t imagined. I dont want to discourage everyone from this, there are some rare people who can manage it at once im sure, but i had serious trouble with it.

Deepika: But i do know that better sense prevailed!

Arpita: Yes thankfully – I just realised that i had to shift my approach to the situation. Instead of beginning with forsaking things altogether, i began by equipping myself. You know the right durable clothbag that folds up to be tiny and is easy to carry, the little bits of steel reusable cutlery or to choose places which facilitate reusable items… those kinds of things worked better to help me incrementally do better. Small steps – where I just kept learning and improvising towards my goal.

Deepika: You know another element to this whole conversation on ‘transformative change and action’ which I think has been coming out of the episodes is this idea of how we don’t exist within a vacuum and our decisions on how we are present in this world, do have consequences and meaning.

I remember especially thinking of this when I was reading Connected by Nicholas Christakis where he explains the insights from his research on the amazing power of social networks and our profound influence on one another’s lives.

Arpita: Yeah you quoted him in the episode ‘Connection in the time of Corona’ which basically said that his research was showing how if your friend’s friend’s friend gained weight, you gained weight. If your friend’s friend’s friend stopped smoking, you stopped smoking. And they discovered that if your friend’s friend’s friend became happy, you became happy. Which is basically a level of influence none of us is really aware of possessing as we go about life – sometimes almost on auto mode – doing the things that we do!

Deepika: Yeah he says that most of us are usually only aware of our immediate influence, we don’t realise that everything we think, feel, do, or say can spread far beyond the people we know. But his research shows that we are as individuals inevitably a part of social networks and within them ‘we transcend ourselves, for good or ill, and become a part of something much larger. We are connected’.

And I remember being especially struck by this quote of his where he says: “If we are connected to everyone else by six degrees and we can influence them up to three degrees, then one way to think about ourselves is that each of us can reach about halfway to everyone else on the planet.”

Arpita: That’s massive isn’t it! It’s a whole different way of understanding how you can go from two individuals cleaning a tiny patch of a dirty beach to 1000s participating in a massive clean-up effort! We have influence whether we choose to actively solicit it or not – people around us are getting touched by the choices we make. It really makes you reconsider the idea of an individual being too small and insignificant a unit.

Arpita: But you know I think there’s a second element to this idea of connection and transformative change and action that i’ve been thinking about. Even as we consider the idea of how we are connected in profound ways with the people around us – equally powerful are the experiences of how we might be connected to ourselves and the larger environment about us. You remember how in our first episode on loneliness Sonia said this bit on how ‘busyness’ or being busy is taking over our lives?

Sonia: I feel cities don’t have that space for support because everyone’s so busy – traveling, everyone’s so busy, working. Everyone’s so busy then coping with the side effects of traveling and working that we don’t we don’t think of creating spaces for support and that’s the… that’s the tragedy of it.

Arpita: I was thinking how this being too busy is not only responsible for how we might lose out on human connection but also how we connect with ourselves and the world around us. What you were saying before about the mere act of segregation becoming a powerful learning experience speaks to that power of attention I think.

Deepika: Yes definitely – our high consumption, high economic productivity based lives involves managing multiple mental and physical demands on our time, running through such busy schedules does mean that we aren’t even aware of the trail of things we are leaving in our wake. I remember Poonam Bir Kasturi of Daily Dump pointing this out specifically.

Poonam: Blore is full of these IT things na so when you go into a closed office in an air conditioned office, no natural light, you’re in front of a computer you have coffee on call, you’ve cold coffee on call or you have lipstick on call … whatever you have on call. You literally live in a bubble. You go out and you’re in manicured lawns. There’s water sprinklers. All of it is taken care of. You drive okay through some shitty traffic and you reach home… But again there you have made enough money so everything is like closed right? You’re not aware of the amount of mess that is accumulating because of the choices you’re making, you’re not aware. Even in… we go for these, you know, these workshops in IT spaces and these big corporate offices I have actually seen people just drop things into a dustbin like it doesn’t matter.

Arpita: Whatever you bring your attention to – be it human or otherwise – is what gets nourished in our lives. For example, giving attention to what I am consuming and how – even for a really small part of my day has a way of initiating other little changes in my life I’ve noticed.

Deepika: Yeah definitely, Just spotting the same packet of chips or toothpaste tube that I helped clean up from the beach or segregated from my waste into plastics – spotting it in a store changes my perception of that product. I can now actually see the full cycle of it and this makes me rethink how I buy what I do.

Arpita: And you’re not alone in experiencing this i think – each of the people we interviewed, who are in their own way stalwarts of their fields, had a story of this kind to tell. Where you begin with a simple intention, in your case for example it’s about wanting to manage your waste better. But then the mere act of doing one thing begins to bring in all these non-linear insights one hadn’t really considered – like for you it’s quickly expanded from just waste management to making you consider what you even bring into your home, how you consume and buy – what those values imply.

In a similar way I remember Vishwanath telling us how wanting to build an ecologically friendly mud-brick house changed his view of water.

Vishwanath: It started with us building our house in ’94 and so we wanted to make it as eco-friendly as possible. So we were building with earth. We dug up a basement and we were building a house, but we could not access the urban utilities water because they would not give you permission to draw water for construction for the house and it continues to be the practice. So we were buying water from a tanker because we didn’t want to dig a borewell and at that point of time when we were building this house it was raining and then you could see that the all the rainwater was running out into the drain and we had this tanker for which we were paying money, buying water. So we thought hey, let’s try and make sense of it. So I started to look at the rainfall patterns, rainfall intensities and how much volume on a particular site and it was quite an aha moment because you know 30×50 plot it was about one and a half lakh litres of rain water falling in an year and we were just allowing it to go waste. So we started to do something about it – collect it, filter it, try to understand the quality, quantity, distribution. Therefore, rainwater harvesting started.

Deepika: yeah, this is definitely true – I think he referred to it as serendipity but i think sometimes that serendipity occurs more if we allow for certain conditions really – following the flow of our learning and curiosity. I remember in some episode you said it’s like they’re all these conduits of entering the same big conversation we’re all a part of! Someone enters it from the space of water, another from waste, another from building ecologically friendly homes, or wanting to reduce their consumption footprint, someone wants to clean their local beach, or someone cares about human well-being or mental health – superficially they might seem like these are separate issues but really, as we were saying in the previous episode, all these issues are interconnected and part of the same giant tapestry of building well-being into our lives and communities.

Arpita: And inevitably entering one conduit means you eventually do bump and sweep into others. I remember how Poonam spoke of the serendipitous nature of this journey where she said how converting your kitchen waste into compost then organically pushes us to new avenues of considering our relationship with nature.

People say oh god, I don’t have a garden. I’m not …what’ll I do with it man? Such a… that’s the first thing when you get that material to see what was smelly, it was rotten you thought it was waste has become this wonderful sweet smelling thing. So yeah, that’s a first, you know thing that hits you saying my god this happens and then you take it to a tree, a nearby tree and drop it say hello to the tree that will then become your second point of reconnection with nature. That’s what we say.

Deepika: And really who is to say what magic takes place after that first hello with a tree. Which is pretty much what has happened with me! My compost goes to the community garden space now. Like she said, it organically opened up the idea of gardening, of tending my own few pots in my tiny Mbai ledge!

Arpita: Yeah and the story is the same with me really – over the years what feels like serendipity is really this journey of following the path that begins to unfold and then break out into so many more directions. I think I began my garden with a few rain lily seeds i picked from the roadside and slowly as they grew, i almost felt compelled.. drawn into their world – understanding soil composition, the various kinds of creatures that interact with a plant from butterflies to birds to mantis’, watching seasons flow, migration patterns – there is so much knowledge and beauty all around us.

I absolutely love this non-linearity of learning and doing that comes from this process. And some of our conversations really showcased how profound the insights can be – i think it’s safe to say that this one from Savita Hiremath, a composting advocate, is one of my favorites.

Savita Hiremath: If composting won’t happen what will happen in the world then? All the world, it will be full of dead bodies right? You have to think back. You have to think what if there was nothing called composting on this planet? There would be no life. To understand that decay is as important as growth in life – these are two faces of the same coin called life. There has to be decay if there has to be growth. For this decay all these little creatures visible and invisible, tangible and intangible ones – all these are important. That’s when we begin to respect the interconnectivity of life. This is one thing I have realised.

Deepika: I would add that it’s not just profound insight, there’s also beauty, wonder, compassion – emotions that add greatly to our lives. We heard of this from across our multiple conversations and clubbed with recently emerging research on how these positive emotional experiences are beneficial to our lives, it really speaks powerfully to what you’re saying here about connecting to the self and to the world around us in new and profound ways.

Arpita: You know as we come to the end of season one of The Curio-city Collective podcast, it really has been a privilege and joy for us to have had these conversations with all these facets and insights despite the challenges of the pandemic – and not just with the people we’ve brought to the episodes but also with those who have been part of our campaigns on our social media spaces, been a part of our zoom workshops and of course been our listeners.

Deepika: Really this season has broken the skin of the seed that is TCC and we hope to see it sprout further in coming days. And as 3 women struggling to make sense of who we are through these times, the expansion into a collective conversation really has been possibly the most therapeutic to us! Especially as we read the mails and the messages listeners and readers have sent us detailing how they’ve been inspired to reflection and action through TCC!

Arpita: I absolutely agree. It feels right doesn’t it that we began this season with a conversation on loneliness and we close it by challenging our own!

You know I recently came across this article by Joanna Macy, the Buddhist environmentalist, where she outlines how there are three stories that are shaping the world during this period of crisis: the first, is the call for ignoring what is at hand and continue with ‘business as usual’; the second, she terms ‘the great unravelling’ which refers to the ongoing collapse of living systems and structures as we’re experiencing it; the third and final one she calls ‘the great turning’ – what she deems as the central adventure of our times: the transition to a life-sustaining society.

Our hope here at TCC is to be rooted within and be a safe space for that third story even as we ponder and negotiate the first two. We are so grateful that you joined and stayed with us through season one. We hope you will continue to stay connected with us till we return with season two! Our campaigns, workshops, conversations will continue on our social media spaces – so do continue to keep in touch – we always love hearing from you! And yes, stay healthy, stay safe.

Outro: As we end season one, we would love to hear from you dear listeners – what did you like, what do you think we can do better, what issues would you like covered in season two! On our website www.thecuriocitycollective.org we have a short survey that covers these questions. Please do take the time to fill it out so that we can do better in season two! You can also share your thoughts with us at team@thecuriocitycollective.org

Season one of TCC was an outcome of many generous conversations and actions! TCC Advisors and TCC family – a very special thanks for having faith in us and for giving freely your ideas, time, energy and support – we couldn’t have done this without you!

Also to our extended network of family and friends who have religiously listened, read, encouraged and shared our work through these months – our heartfelt love and gratitude!

Credit: This episode was made with the support of Srinidhi Raghavan and produced by the Bangalore Production Company.